"I agree that a person can be saved no matter what things are happening around them, but on the other hand, it's also true that if you don't have very strong Scriptural backing or an understanding of God's truths, rather than the world's, it can lead you down false paths, and ultimately, break the faith you had. The Holy Spirit is there to guide us, but when Christians deliberately choose to ignore Him either purposefully or with gradual acceptance of the world's word, then it can destroy the previous communion you had with Christ or just deplete your trust in Scripture. So I wouldn't say having the Holy Spirit guarantees you from falling away, especially if you choose to start ignoring Him (that's why God continually tells us in the NT to be on our guard against Satan and things which can damage our faith---1 Cor. 16:13, 1 Peter 5:8-9)..."
"I think we basically agree with one another about the grace of Christ, the importance of Scripture, and how near we are to God, but I suppose the question I was addressing was 'once your saved your saved'. I don't agree with that concept, because there are instances in the Bible when a Christian (with the Holy Spirit) fell away, such as Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5:3 indicates they lied to the Holy Spirit within him). Passages like Heb. 6:4-6 also make the indication that there can be those who 'share' in the Holy Spirit but ultimately reject Christ. In Rev. 3:1-6, Christ speaks to the believers in Sardis about dying spiritually; only some will overcome and be written in the Book of Life. There are other passages about God commanding us to overcome the world (through our lifetime of faith) and only THEN will we be written in the Book of Life (Rev. 3:21). Yes, I agree with grace and a lifetime of learned holiness; but I do not agree with being saved your entire lifetime. Only God can determine someone's heart at their death, but if they were a Christian and deliberately chose to reject Christ, I agree with Heb. 6:4-6...."
Fellow FBooker: "Hebrews 10:14, John 10:27-30, John 6:39-40, John 17:12, Rom. 8:29-30, Jeremiah 32:40, 1 Pet. 1:3-5, Rom. 11:29 to start."
Me:"I'd like to briefly discuss some of the verses you provided. All of the New Testament verses do talk about God's promise for eternal salvation to those who have been saved. However, in each of these verses, there is no indication that we cannot willingly reject such things God gives us. As I said earlier, a gift can be provided (such as eternal salvation), but we do not have to accept or keep it. Hebrews 10:14: This verse in context signifies those who are currently being 'made holy'. If you are rejecting Christ, would you consider you are currently 'being made holy'? Thus this nullifies the 'perfect forever' portion.John 10:27-30 is also a very popular verse for once saved/always saved. However, notice the beginning of the verse: It says that the sheep FOLLOW Christ's voice. Thus, if you are actively following Christ, Christ promises nothing can snatch you away (this does not agree with if you abandoned him/did not follow him). John 6: 39-40 says that everyone who believes in Christ will be raised up. If you have rejected Christ and claim you do not believe in him, you no longer are seen as 'believing' in him and have lost that promise. John 17:12, in context, is Christ speaking about his disciples and Judas (the one doomed to destruction), not us as Christians. Romans 8:28-30 talks about those who LOVE Christ being predestined. If you say you are rejecting Christ and hate him, that is indicating that you were not predestined in the first place/or you rejected his calling. Jeremiah 32:40 is talking about the people of Israel in context, not Christians. 1 Pet. 1:3-5 discusses how through faith we are shielded, with an imperishable inheritance. If we reject Christ, obviously we are rejecting our faith in Christ as well; thus, we no longer have share in the inheritance. Rom. 11:29 says God's gifts and call are irrevocable---this implies that, consistent with God, he never changes his call and his purposes for us, but it provides no indication that you can reject that calling. It is only saying that the calling itself will never change. I would be confused why God, as a just God, would allow people in to inheritances, perfection, and heaven who actively chose to reject him later on in their life, even if they were Christians earlier on in life. Does that seem like justice to you?"
This link provides more about the issue: http://www.anointedlinks.com/once_saved.html
Fellow FBooker: "Hebrews 10:14, John 10:27-30, John 6:39-40, John 17:12, Rom. 8:29-30, Jeremiah 32:40, 1 Pet. 1:3-5, Rom. 11:29 to start."
Me:"I'd like to briefly discuss some of the verses you provided. All of the New Testament verses do talk about God's promise for eternal salvation to those who have been saved. However, in each of these verses, there is no indication that we cannot willingly reject such things God gives us. As I said earlier, a gift can be provided (such as eternal salvation), but we do not have to accept or keep it. Hebrews 10:14: This verse in context signifies those who are currently being 'made holy'. If you are rejecting Christ, would you consider you are currently 'being made holy'? Thus this nullifies the 'perfect forever' portion.John 10:27-30 is also a very popular verse for once saved/always saved. However, notice the beginning of the verse: It says that the sheep FOLLOW Christ's voice. Thus, if you are actively following Christ, Christ promises nothing can snatch you away (this does not agree with if you abandoned him/did not follow him). John 6: 39-40 says that everyone who believes in Christ will be raised up. If you have rejected Christ and claim you do not believe in him, you no longer are seen as 'believing' in him and have lost that promise. John 17:12, in context, is Christ speaking about his disciples and Judas (the one doomed to destruction), not us as Christians. Romans 8:28-30 talks about those who LOVE Christ being predestined. If you say you are rejecting Christ and hate him, that is indicating that you were not predestined in the first place/or you rejected his calling. Jeremiah 32:40 is talking about the people of Israel in context, not Christians. 1 Pet. 1:3-5 discusses how through faith we are shielded, with an imperishable inheritance. If we reject Christ, obviously we are rejecting our faith in Christ as well; thus, we no longer have share in the inheritance. Rom. 11:29 says God's gifts and call are irrevocable---this implies that, consistent with God, he never changes his call and his purposes for us, but it provides no indication that you can reject that calling. It is only saying that the calling itself will never change. I would be confused why God, as a just God, would allow people in to inheritances, perfection, and heaven who actively chose to reject him later on in their life, even if they were Christians earlier on in life. Does that seem like justice to you?"
This link provides more about the issue: http://www.anointedlinks.com/once_saved.html
